Jun 11, 2011 - CLASSROOM 2.0 LIVE – Sweet Search and findingDulcinea Update

00:06 - Peggy George
Here we go!!!!

00:11 - Peggy George
Welcome to all of you!!!

02:26 - Peggy George
After Mark finishes his presentation we'll have time for Q/A when you can take the mic if you want

02:45 - Peggy George
you can ask questions any time in the chat and we'll save them to ask Mark after his presentation

02:51 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Good day everyone. It's a beautiful sunny day in New Orleans.

02:57 - Peggy George
Hi Paula

03:29 - Peggy George
Mark will probably be doing app sharing so you'll want to choose "scale to fit" so you can see the whole screen without having to scroll

03:38 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Hi Peggy. Excited to be here today.

03:47 - Peggy George

04:03 - blairteach 1
Hello from Atlanta!

04:07 - McTeach (Karen)
Good Morning, Friends!!

04:12 - Peggy George
I almost forgot to put myself in North Carolina--usually in Phoenix AZ :-)

04:14 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Hi Nancy.

04:18 - Peggy George
Hi McTeach!

04:21 - Jennifer
Good morning from Hamilton Ontario Canada

04:25 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Good morning, Karen.

04:30 - reba @jghfoundation08
Hi paula

04:33 - Peggy George
wonderful spread on the map!!! :-)

04:40 - reba @jghfoundation08
enjoying the JJA Project

05:12 - Kim Keith
Not working

05:12 - McTeach (Karen)
Hello Peggy and Paula!

05:14 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
@reba Hi and I'm glad you are part of the #JJAProject.

05:18 - SusannahS

05:21 - Peggy George
If you're not already using SweetSearch, after today you're going to wonder why you didn't use it before :-) It's incredible!!

05:23 - Jennifer
I teach A and B

05:42 - Patti R
I am A and B also

05:42 - Peggy George
we need an "other" :-)

05:44 - blairteach 1
Good morning, Paula.

05:50 - Cecilia Pincomb
I teach A and E

05:51 - Peggy George
ran out of options for A-E

05:54 - Marjorie Wagner 1
I also do pd for middl school

06:02 - Peggy George
thanks for adding your notes in the chat!

06:20 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Peggy, I will start with sharing my screen to show the links, then the slides

06:41 - Peggy George
I don't have students but use it myself!! Amazing search tools!

06:52 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Hi @zmidler.

07:15 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Plenty new to talk about today

07:21 - Patti R
don't the checks show next to your name anymore?

07:21 - Dotty
Ihave tried to introduce this to my coworkers but they insist on using Google.

07:22 - @edmcgovern
Didn't this year, and was reminded how much I need to

07:25 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
My check isn't working, but yes I do.

07:38 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Hi Mark Moran.

07:44 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Hi Paula!

07:57 - McTeach (Karen)
Good morning, Mark!! Looking forward to this!

07:59 - Peggy George
We had Mark on Classroom 2.0 LIVE over a year ago and many new features!!! You can view the older presentation (March 2010) if you need more detail about SweetSearch. http://live.classroom20.com/archive-and-resources.html

08:08 - blairteach 1
Moderator has option to show participants choices or not. Looks like they're not showing the reponses.

08:11 - Dotty
Can sweetsearch be used on the IPAD

08:21 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
WooHoo Mark is in the house. Let the learning begin.

08:47 - Peggy George
can't wait to hear more about the new tutorials!!!

09:06 - Peggy George
go ahead Mark

09:11 - @edmcgovern
Web Research tutorial sounds like it would be awesome. Excited to learn about

09:14 - Peggy George
share your browser

09:26 - blairteach 1

09:27 - Peggy George
seeing it great

09:39 - Deepak R
yep mark go on

09:47 - Peggy George
remember to choose "scale to fit" so you can see it all in the window without having to scroll

10:10 - Peggy George

10:24 - Peggy George

10:31 - Terry
findingDulcinea & Sweet Search are FREE products

10:44 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
That is a great resource for us to use with our students.

10:53 - Peggy George
these are such powerful tools!!!

10:57 - Info Meister
This is exactly what I had predicted two decades ago (while on a Tech committe in a PL

11:04 - Peggy George
curation is so important for teachers!!!

11:09 - kg
I use the Research guide chunk to gear up my undergrad future educators, along with Alan November's info lit materials online.

11:28 - Deepak R
"scale to fit" how to do that

11:32 - Peggy George
it's so reassuring to know that these links have all been vetted by educators!

11:38 - Jennifer
This looks terrific. I remember the internet before graphic interface

11:49 - Peggy George

12:06 - Peggy George

12:13 - zmidler
Sweet Search is a part of our Safe Searching suite of resources including fee-based databases, vetted online reosurces, and topic specific directories. Safe Searching seems to resonate with teachers, students, and parents.

12:30 - Info Meister
And better - sweetsearch is the good four letter word - free

12:41 - Peggy George

12:55 - Peggy George

13:33 - Peggy George
Welcome Govinda!

14:15 - Peggy George

14:53 - Kristen B (@teachteKBeck) 1
I need resources for non-grading and homework to share with my staff...

15:05 - Peggy George
the source information is so helpful!!! models good practice for students

15:26 - Peggy George

15:40 - Peggy George
so true Mark!!

16:17 - Info Meister
I also see this as bioth a great tools and on ethat will be looked upon by the "business " model as - why do we need school media centers - sorry to be the devils advicate - but that is how number cruncers will view this. Forgetting that the intermediary (SLMS) are key to efective and efficient use of these tools at the local level.

17:07 - Peggy George

17:39 - McTeach (Karen)
Wow! That's awesome news!

17:52 - Kim Caise
isn't it? i love the details

17:52 - Peggy George
amazing!! and you can subscribe to receive them daily!

18:23 - Govinda Panthy
Great Mark !

18:28 - Peggy George
Get the SweetSearch widgets here: http://www.sweetsearch.com/widget

18:38 - Peggy George

18:48 - kg
The articles model so well what we want students to do, when they generate smart hyptertext docs!

18:58 - Kim Caise
good point @infomeister

18:58 - zmidler
I believe there's a widget to allow you to embed the Happy Birthday and Today in History into...thanks Peggy--dang you are fast.

18:58 - Peggy George
exactly kg!!!

19:00 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
School media centers will be needed to help students learn how to use tools like this to search for info and then how to create a report, video, mashup.

19:04 - Peggy George

19:22 - Peggy George

19:46 - Peggy George
all of these links are organized for you in our Livebinder for today :-) http://livebinders.com/edit?id=110653

19:57 - Kim Caise
i wish this had been around when i taught social studies

20:03 - Peggy George

20:10 - kg
I have used the blog posts to challenge future educators on topics that we will be examining...great job.

20:10 - Peggy George
that blog post is very helpful!!!

20:18 - Kim Caise
the guides are all vetted by educators

20:20 - McTeach (Karen)
SweetSites is awesome!

20:35 - Peggy George

20:36 - Roxanne Clement

20:58 - Peggy George
Enter a URL:

21:10 - Peggy George

21:39 - Info Meister
I have always preached and wil always make it know that the School Media centre is the heart of the learning and are advisors - and really the tech savvy people - for information retrieveal and research.

21:45 - stephe
I added sweet search to the Symbaloo webmix that my first graders use.

21:46 - zmidler
I am not worried about tools like Sweet Search translating into the demise of media centers. Have you ever watched students serach the Internet? Have you ever watched them try and capture relevant info on a webpage? Librarians are information professionals, students aren't and neither are the number crunchers.

21:55 - Peggy George
what an incredible resource for classroom use!!!

22:11 - Peggy George

22:16 - Jennifer
I cannot wait to share this with the rest of my staff

22:25 - Kim Caise
many educators lack the knowledge of how to teach students sound research strategies

22:27 - Peggy George
they will be thrilled Jennifer!!!

22:40 - Kim Caise
a huge timesaver @jennifer!

22:44 - Kim Keith
Love this for us librarians

22:45 - Peggy George
it makes a teacher's job so easy to support research in this way

22:47 - Marjorie Wagner 1
My colleagues are going to love this!

23:05 - Peggy George
thanks for doing a sample search Mark!

23:09 - Dan Boyle
We were just talking about helping our students to do better searches next year. This could be so huge for us and by extension our students

23:26 - Kim Caise
you can resize the window, use the scroll bars on the bottom and right as well as scale to fit under tools, application sharing

23:30 - Peggy George
that search is enhanced by yolink which provides even more options for saving and sharing the results

23:43 - Marjorie Wagner 1
The sources box really sets this site above others

24:02 - carolynstanley
Students at our middle school have been using this search engine since I introduced them to it last fall, and when I hear them telling other students to use it, I know it's a hit.

24:20 - Peggy George
This blog post does a great job of explaining/providing rationale for SweetSearch! http://blog.findingdulcinea.com/2010/11/why-sweetsearch-is-the-best-search-engine-for-school.html

24:41 - Kim Caise
hence the reason teachers require several sources

24:51 - Info Meister
I think if we left the most important component out of the equasion - THE SLMS - there would be research (poor) integration of tools (perhaps with the correct tech staff developers) but research intervies (yes that old term) is still the basis for qualkity research - not just going to a source. We know e=where to go for information and how to get it quickly - look at the film - Office Set - a predicator? of the current trend?

24:58 - Peggy George
you can share your results directly with Google docs and other tools (toggle)

25:15 - Peggy George
I love that you can share the results directly with Diigo!!

25:16 - kg
I ask my undergrads to search here first, to locate relevant student-friendly resources. Then ask them to go to a few other non-Google engines...then Google. Then - based on a research assignment they are doing - have them generate a smaller, more discrete Google custom search engine (to give them the practice).

25:40 - Peggy George
yolink also provides a direct link to EasyBib for citing resources.

25:40 - Kim Keith
Info where do you teach

25:50 - Maureen@bcdtech
I used sweetsearch with my 4th graders- they had a hard time finding info on whales- but I have a custom search made anyway. For history or social studies sweet search is the best tool for kids

25:52 - Info Meister
btw dod anyone notyoce the "dissapearance" of some of googles speciality search engines?

25:53 - Peggy George
great example kg!!

25:54 - Kim Caise
fantastic idea @kg

26:01 - carolynstanley
@Peggy - please explain again how you can share withgoogle docs

26:12 - Patti R
Mark immediately solved a problem we had with the search, very responsive to educators' needs

26:31 - Cecilia Pincomb
speaking of whole toolkits-how about http://www.safesearchkids.com/

26:31 - Peggy George
there's a link on the top of the sweetsearch page that show the site is enhanced by yolink--click on the tool icon for sharing

26:32 - Sheri Edwards
yes @carolynstanley: @Peggy - please explain again how you can share withgoogle docs

26:47 - stephe
What was the name of the tool?

26:58 - Peggy George
he's showing you now

26:58 - blairteach 1

27:03 - Kim Caise
i added that to the list of questions @sherri and @carolyn - fantastic question

27:24 - Peggy George
the site is yolink enhanced so we have many more options for sharing!

27:26 - carolynstanley
OH, thanks - he just showed us - I had forgotten about that feature - terrific -

27:31 - Peggy George
can share directly with Evernote too

27:39 - Sheri Edwards
there it is - how to add to google docs wowser

27:48 - Kim Keith
What is yolink?

27:55 - Peggy George
I use yolink any time I do a google search or diigo search and get much better results

28:03 - Kim Caise
yolink is a search enhancement tool that is a browser plugin

28:05 - Peggy George
yolink is a search enhancement tool

28:08 - carolynstanley
does SweetSearch work just as well on the iPad?

28:15 - Peggy George

28:34 - stephe
can you get to sweetsearch4me from the sweet search box?

28:39 - Peggy George
ways to share yolink enhnaced searches: http://www.yolink.com/yolink/help/plug-in/

28:40 - Janice Robertson
I can rewatch this later, right? (Joined late)

29:00 - Kim Caise
we did a show on yolink awhile back http://live.classroom20.com/1/category/yolink/1.html

29:01 - @reba jghfoundation08
So Sweet Search 4 Me is for elem and Sweet Search is for 6-12 correct?

29:05 - Peggy George

29:10 - kg
I LOVE this 10 steps piece...can't wait to see the next steps.

29:16 - Sheri Edwards
Hi Paula, shamblesguru, blairteach, carolstanley, paulanaugle, mcteach ! here we are again on Saturday :)

29:17 - Kim Caise
yes janice - http://live.classroom20.com on the archives and resour ces page

29:20 - Peggy George

29:27 - Peggy George
everything is great Mark

30:18 - Info Meister
That's so 1970's

30:19 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Hi Sheri. Loving your pics and writings for #JJAPorject.

30:23 - Peggy George
Awesome resources on the findingDulcinea blog! http://blog.findingdulcinea.com/

30:38 - Kim Caise
:) @infomeister

30:38 - carolynstanley
I just want to say thanks to Mark Moran again for this wonderful contribution to education. I heard him last summer, and I'm so glad he is still dedicated to supporting this product. I suggest that any of us who buy from Amazon go to the link from his page, so his company will get credit.

30:45 - Peggy George

31:03 - Sheri Edwards
I'm so glad you started the project #JJAProject -- it's been so refreshing and reflective

31:09 - Peggy George
great point Carolyn!!

31:40 - Peggy George
I know lots of adults that still do that!!!

31:41 - Info Meister
or off = they can manipulate perhaps navigat - but do they understand - I know as educators we must - educate them to be resposible digital citi=zens and leave a valuable footpriont

31:57 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Thanks Kim for sharing that important point. I will be doing that from now on.

32:03 - zmidler
Students are "shallow" searchers and this is a huge problem.

32:06 - Sheri Edwards
Have you created a lesson that helps students evaluate the validity of websites?

32:14 - stephe
Problem is - educators may not have these skills or use them themselves.

32:21 - Peggy George
look at all of the people who continue to circulate emails with urban legends without ever checking to see if they are true!!

32:27 - Jennifer
@Sheri, I would love to see that too

32:36 - kg
My college students mimic that Illinois study.

32:42 - Info Meister
That is why the masters is now equivelent of the HS diploma of the 1980s

32:44 - Peggy George
I definitely found that to be true with my university students--they rarely went beyond the first page of results

33:02 - Maureen@bcdtech
It's so hard for the kids to research topics that they don't have the prior knowledge about- no keywords, just picked a topic out of a hat. No wonder they believe in magic

33:04 - Peggy George
that's really funny!! and sad at same time

33:34 - Kim Caise

33:44 - Peggy George

34:08 - Peggy George
these are really funny and very true!

34:14 - Info Meister
this thought concept - is fed by the NCLB/RTTT requirements - not creative and individual thinking - by george - it's 1984

34:32 - Janice Robertson
That's scary - that who wrote it doesn't matter!!!1

34:33 - Marjorie Wagner 1
This could be coming from my middle school!

34:33 - McTeach (Karen)
This is frightening!

34:34 - blairteach 1
I'm not sure the results would be different if you surveyed adults (even teachers).

34:37 - Peggy George
wow!!! astounding results!!

34:38 - Maureen@bcdtech
2/3 sounds too low- most of the kids never check

34:39 - zmidler
On our LMCWiki, http://flagstaffacademylmc.wikispaces.com/Google+Tips+%26+Tricks, we include specifics on how Google works. It always leads to a good conversation about how to view Google results.

34:44 - Peggy George
I agree blairteach

34:51 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
I agree Nancy.

35:15 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
Yes it does start with us! That's why we are here

35:28 - @reba jghfoundation08
totally agree Mark

35:28 - Info Meister
Has anyone even looked at where we rank in the world - we are behind small "unknown" countries in central asia.

35:28 - Peggy George
http://blog.findingdulcinea.com/2010/08/9-ways-we-help-educators-teach-students-how-to-use-the-web.html None Ways we Help Educators Teach Students How to Use the Web

35:31 - Kim Caise
i wouldn't think this would still be an issue today. i know it is but you would think that with the tech advancements, searching would have developed as well

35:33 - McTeach (Karen)
Yay! Love Colette!!

35:47 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
Hey mcteach.. yes she is great!

35:55 - carolynstanley
Our social studies teacher and library media specialist take her whole team through an exercise in evaluating web pages . They even created some bogus websites with mis information as part of the exercise. Unfortunately, not all students then apply what they've learned when they go on to searching in another class. Just like literacy having to be stressed in all classes, so do effective search techniques need to be stressed in all disciplines.

36:06 - Maureen@bcdtech
Unfortunately all the teachers at my school can model is how to use a card catalog- few know how to research online

36:11 - Info Meister
THere is also a great problem with social skills - we are online and not "offline" enough in reality

36:11 - McTeach (Karen)
Joan!!! Didn't see you!!! Hey there!

36:26 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
Just joined...:-) a bit late but better late than never!

36:31 - Peggy George
that would be an interesting way to start a tech workshop--ask everyone to search for one key word (provided) and watch all of the different ways they approach the task :-)

36:36 - Govinda Panthy 2
skype me on govinda.prasad.panthy1 or gopisu@gmail.com

36:41 - Peggy George
welcome Joan!

36:42 - zmidler
Yes, modeling the process is essential but is must be contextually relevant. If it isn't tied to something the student needs or unit of study it simply doesn't stick.

36:43 - Janice Robertson
When research assignment is poorly planned, students just want to "get er done" and are not invested in true inquiry!

36:50 - kg
@ peggy...great idea

36:56 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
Thanks Peggy! I love joining you for these sessions

37:00 - Maureen@bcdtech
@Peggy G- give them the google of the day as a quick and easy way to start the conversation

37:01 - Govinda Panthy 2
is there anyone interested helping me to establish a library in a rual school in Nepal

37:16 - Info Meister
Again - amazing - what I had stated in a PhD program - where they laughed at me - are now realizing the truth behind my predictions. - Sorry Library nformation centers are dramatically different that your parents (or siblings)

37:19 - zmidler
Amen Mark!

37:23 - Kim Caise
http://allaboutexplorers.com/ is a great resource for teaching students to analyze and critique websites http://allaboutexplorers.com/

37:49 - kg
@Kim: Yes, that and Internet Detective, which Dulicinea recommends

37:49 - Govinda Panthy 2
we have students ageing 3 to 13

37:50 - Peggy George
I had a college student who wanted resources for her action research project on writing strategies and the keyword she chose was "pencil" :-(

37:51 - Kim Caise

38:04 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
Or they say they "can't find anything" because what they are looking for doesn't jump out and say hi!

38:16 - Peggy George
All About Explorers is a fantastic site to help students in a fun way to learn about validating sources

38:19 - SusannahS
why do people have such difficulty choosing keywords?

38:20 - carolynstanley
I would echo what Mark is saying also is applicable to the concept of digital citizenship - has to be taught early and continuously

38:23 - Info Meister
all the more reason that information literacy skills should be increased and not fall victim to test prep - it is for lefe skills - not just academics

38:26 - Govinda Panthy 2
asthma, my mom is a patient of asthma. struggling with her life.

38:39 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
It's part of our "instant culture" that we need to teach students that research is a process that deserves careful attention

38:43 - Peggy George
I agree Info Meister!!!

38:45 - Sheri Edwards
link to Internet Detective ?

38:47 - Govinda Panthy 2
I wish our school had computers and internet access to google the materials

38:55 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
I mean.. we have to combat the "instant culture"

38:58 - Info Meister
If you luck oput - library skills - pulling teeth

39:10 - Maureen@bcdtech
I "teach" the skills for most of one trimester- but it

39:11 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
My librarian is a great partner!

39:14 - carolynstanley
There - I agree - integration of research skills into all disciplines just as literacy has been.

39:25 - blairteach 1
Internet Detective: http://www.vtstutorials.ac.uk/detective/

39:27 - Jennifer
Mark, that makes so much sense

39:32 - kg
Internet Detective: http://www.vtstutorials.ac.uk/detective/

39:33 - Peggy George
this is an amazing blog post: http://blog.findingdulcinea.com/2011/02/a-lost-generation-a-response-to-the-dirty-little-secrets-of-search.html

39:35 - Maureen@bcdtech
Sorry- it's too little too late and being in the lab, it's often out of context

39:35 - Sheri Edwards
To get kids to pay attention and focus on content and validity, they need to have choice in their learning so they are interested.

39:48 - Sheri Edwards
thanks blairteach

39:50 - Govinda Panthy 2
anyone interested for cultural sharing? Nepal is so rich in cultural diversity

39:52 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
Yes. we have to teach them how to think not use a tool

39:54 - @shamblesguru
Ummm ... all sounding very bleak

40:00 - Peggy George
what is the payoff??? the good grade?

40:18 - Janice Robertson
SO TRUE - students are smart and DO look for the payoffs. They produce what teachers demand.

40:19 - Info Meister
unfortunately - research indicates that the collaboration (although promoted) is still more of an exception rather than the ruke. - Life skills - reality research skills = LifeLong Literacy skills

40:23 - Kim Caise
could be to just check the box it was done @peggy

40:25 - Larry A
Doing fine is getting by - not a good attitude for an academic

40:26 - Peggy George
that's what it has been in the past but it's not enough now

40:32 - carolynstanley
Wow! I'm so glad I tuned in. Mark is giving us specifics that are relevant - not just wandering around in a philosophical cloud.

40:48 - flourishingkids ( Joan Young)
I agree @carolynstanley

40:50 - Roxanne Clement

40:51 - kg
wedding the research to an authentic learning experience?

40:56 - Kbrockman
Thank youfor the closed captions....it really helps

41:00 - Peggy George
wow!! that's an incredible resource!!

41:06 - McTeach (Karen)
I'm so excited about this!!!!

41:07 - Deepak R
@carolyn: yep true... great lecture....

41:23 - Peggy George
you're welcome Kbrockman!!! Tammy is such a huge help with the CC

41:24 - carolynstanley
This is wonderful - we won't have to reinvent the wheel.

41:30 - Govinda Panthy 2
hey Dipak ji where r u from?

41:32 - Kim Caise
yes, thank you so much tammy!

41:42 - @edmcgovern
How long do anticipate each of the 18 units taking?

41:55 - Deepak R
@govinda: India... hope u also from india too

42:05 - zmidler
Google has recently changed algorithims to demote content farm results, e.g., ask.com, yahoo answers, etc. Students not are just going directly to those sites & some teachers are accepting info from these sites as acceptable.

42:07 - Govinda Panthy 2
i'm from Nepal

42:07 - Peggy George
everything Mark has developed is so thorough and well-researched and comes directly from what teachers want/need

42:09 - Roxanne Clement

42:20 - Deepak R
@govind: oh good

42:20 - Info Meister
We still are not looking at the whole picture - we are still focusing on the academic - and losing ore in the process - rather than relating it to e the needs of many individusls - I know I have had success to build academic success through prior knowledge and learning - Everyine can be a scuccess - for their needs - and use other components (from diversgenbt academic (or non-academic) application

42:23 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Can use http://www.allaboutexplorers.com/ to help elem students learn abt validity of things found on the web.

42:28 - Govinda Panthy 2
a school teacher. I run a primary school in a rual part of nepal.

42:32 - Marjorie Wagner 1
The teacher piece IS critical!

42:53 - Peggy George
excellent point about quality research!

42:55 - zmidler
Mark, who are your developers/team members, e.g., librarians, professional researchers like AIIP members?

43:06 - Deepak R
@govinda: im a ug graduate... just now finished

43:12 - Maureen@bcdtech
Sign me up Mark!

43:19 - carolynstanley
Will there still be a free version?

43:20 - Peggy George
what an incredible pricing structure!!

43:24 - Roxanne Clement
Me too...how do we sign up npw

43:27 - Janice Robertson
How do we make sure that we hear about it?

43:27 - Roxanne Clement

43:28 - Peggy George
everything else will remain free!!

43:32 - Govinda Panthy 2
ug? What does it mean?

43:35 - Larry A
@Info - I agree - it has to be more individualized to keep their interests and show how it can pertain to the world of work

43:48 - @reba jghfoundation08
can non-profit org or homeschool purchase the tutorial

43:48 - Deepak R
@govinda: B.tech CSE

44:16 - Govinda Panthy 2
Weldone. Deepak

44:17 - Info Meister
Who will be your primary base? Will they be used by the subscriber or will be be a high learning curve (not all are tech literacte)?

44:22 - kg
will there be a university/college option? or something that is teacher-based, like VoiceThread?

44:23 - Kim Caise

44:41 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Glad those days are gone.

44:42 - Deepak R
@govinda: Thanks !

44:48 - Maureen@bcdtech
So, is this the one with the teacher version/student version? And what is the reading level/age group of students that this is targeted toward?

44:53 - Peggy George
http://www.sweetsearch.com/schoollibrarians This article is so helpful approaching research tips from librarian perspective

45:08 - Info Meister
This sounds exactly paralel to the scooby doo epiosode of when you can do everything from home in your "own time" and just listening.

45:10 - Roxanne Clement
Levels of specificity...elementary, middle, high, college?

45:19 - carolynstanley
@Peggy - I assume there will be a LiveBinder with all these links?

45:23 - Govinda Panthy 2
I wish my students could use computers and internet in their class and at home

45:29 - Peggy George

45:35 - Kim Caise

45:38 - Peggy George
yes all of these links are in our Livebinder for today :-)

45:40 - Info Meister
HOw are you going to offer evidence of individual learning? Is this for all students or a sellect few who "understand?

45:57 - SusannahS
thanks everyone I've got to go now, this is my first Classroom session - I'll be back Thanks Mark will follow up all your links - best of luck with your products

46:15 - Peggy George
bye SusannahS--thanks for coming!!

46:18 - Maureen@bcdtech
I use a lot of exercises, info from http://21cif.com. How will this be structured differently from the units they offer?

46:28 - Larry A
If students are not graded or given credit for good searches from teachers, instructors, professors, most won't want to bother - they'll do what gets you by

46:31 - Peggy George
the recording for this session will be posted soon after the session is finished

46:31 - Deepak R
Evaluation... hmm i have to get used to that.... :)

46:32 - kg
@InfoMiester: Isn't it your job as an educator, to develop an assessment plan corresponding to the outcomes you are shooting for?

46:38 - zmidler
It looks like these tutorials have more indepth searching techniques than Noodle Tools, EasyBib, or IMSA-info Fluency Project, etc.?

46:56 - Peggy George
http://live.classroom20.com/archive-and-resources.html Recording and links posted here

47:04 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Isn't it funny that so many of us don't want t oinclude a source that is several years old anymore. We want everything to be the most updated info possible.

47:36 - Kim Caise
very true @paula

47:49 - Deepak R
Hi mark please turn on the slide show

48:04 - Peggy George
so true Paula! When I see articles about technology that are 10 years old I think they are way too outdated because so much has changed

48:36 - Peggy George
these slides aren't part of the slide show today--not released yet :-)

48:48 - Peggy George
they are part of the subscription service

48:51 - Maureen@bcdtech
That's something that is hard for kids to understand. When they are trying to prove a thesis, they need to know both sides!

48:56 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Someone shared a go-to website today on Twitter. I checked and it hasn't been updated since 2008.

49:30 - Govinda Panthy 2
I agree with @anymore

49:36 - Kim Caise
oh my goodness! so much has changed even in the past 3 years

49:52 - Maureen@bcdtech
I used a resource that had the kids choose Research/advocacy/commercial- many said greenpeace was research...

49:58 - Sheri Edwards
Yet some information is timeless

50:04 - Info Meister
Thi=e last description - is exectly why the system in general is failing oiur students - as Ravich and others have pointed out. We will continue to be "left behind" without individual needs and innovation - we will continue to fall behind the world and becme the fasted growing 10th world nation - several exceptions - which should not be. We are mukti cultural, mulktiregional and have divers needs within te country - there is no panacea or magic potion to fit a suqre peg in a rouind hole.

50:13 - Kim Caise
great point @sheri

50:14 - kg
Thank goodness you are embedding the .gov bias!!

50:16 - Peggy George
.govs are definitely not unbiased!!!!!

50:32 - Peggy George

50:45 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
No we haven't come all the way back from Katrina. Sad but true. Sixth anniversary approaching and still so much rebuilding needs to be done.

50:49 - Info Meister
the giovernemnt is always biased -

50:52 - carolynstanley

50:58 - Govinda Panthy 2
we are struglling for physical lirbrary, digital library is far beyond us my friends. anyone interest to help us so that the future of our students will be changed?

51:09 - carolynstanley
Yes - martinlutherking.org

51:13 - zmidler
Again, Amen Mark! .edu & .gov are not w/o bias--no domain is beyond scrutiny--everyone has an agenda

51:19 - Maureen@bcdtech
Oh, that is helpful instead of the tree octopus

51:30 - kg
I love the Suspicious sites construct.

51:31 - Info Meister
amazing - I have been teaching these for at least 15 years (yes even back in the "text" days for line entry

51:38 - Cecilia Pincomb
Is the subscription service for all grade levels? Can it be used by elementary aged students

51:52 - Peggy George
I think there is some value in using something like All About Explorers to begin to understand how to evaluate credibility in safe ways

51:57 - Maureen@bcdtech
@Cecilia- that's what I want to know too

52:13 - Info Meister
contact info

52:14 - Peggy George
that is so exciting!!!

52:16 - carolynstanley
I still can't believe that college students believed the tree octopus hoax - perhaps the report on the college students was false.

52:17 - Maureen@bcdtech
@mark- are you doing a special session at ISTE?

52:17 - Sheri Edwards
I'm ready for this now ! Thank you !

52:18 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
I'll see you at ISTE, Mark. Can't wait.

52:23 - Roxanne Clement
How do we get signed up for preview?

52:30 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
I will be presenting at ISTE Unplugged

52:33 - Kelly Burnett
Thank you for the great resources Mark!

52:43 - kg
How do we become early adopters?

52:51 - @reba jghfoundation08
is Sweet Search for 6-12 and is Sweet Search 4 Me for K-5? correct?

52:57 - Maureen@bcdtech
Thanks Mark- haven't had time to even open a planner for ISTE yet. Will be sure to catch it

52:58 - Peggy George
great question Roxanne!! come to ISTE Unplugged which you can view either at the conference or online through LearnCentral

53:01 - Cecilia Pincomb
Do you have a preview version for subscription service?

53:05 - Roxanne Clement
ISTE unplugged, does that mean it will be covered by livestream or Elluminate?

53:08 - zmidler
Any Sweet Search reperesentatives at TIE in Colorado in later June? This would be a great audience to hit with demos of this offering.

53:09 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Me too, Mark. That's where we met.

53:14 - Sheri Edwards
is there an app for this? IOS ?

53:18 - Deepak R
Great Mark thank you for this great lecture

53:21 - zmidler
Will you be looking for beta testers?

53:36 - Info Meister

53:39 - Peggy George
this is a great start page for all of the dulinea media: http://www.dulcineamedia.com/

53:43 - carolynstanley
@Mark - my biggest concern is that our school wouldn't be able to find the time in its busy curriculum to do justice to your resource.

53:44 - Maureen@bcdtech
@plnaugle@mcteach Looking forward to catching up with you at ISTE

53:50 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
@Roxanne Yes, ISTE Unplugged will be archived through Elluminate.

54:05 - Janice Robertson
Is it primarily American or is it applicable to Canadian students as well?

54:06 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
See you there Maureen.

54:06 - Govinda Panthy 2
really sounds exciting, but how can our students get benefitted without internet at school and home?

54:19 - Peggy George
preview is important for new tools :-)

54:37 - Info Meister
There's google - and they are realy up and comming

54:37 - Peggy George
that's very generous to give 3 years discount to early adopters!!

54:45 - McTeach (Karen)
Hey Maureen!! Can't wait!!

54:49 - Roxanne Clement
Love to see it so I can get the PO going in September

54:51 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
I want to be an early adapter.

55:00 - Govinda Panthy 2
What si beta testers?

55:06 - @shamblesguru
... an App for mobile devices?

55:13 - Sheri Edwards
early adapter here...

55:17 - McTeach (Karen)
If I'm still in the classroom this fall, I definitely want to use this!!

55:17 - Roxanne Clement
Me too...early adapter...ready now, but need PO in September

55:21 - Peggy George
great question shamblesguru!!

55:24 - kg
Think about all the teacher educators who can benefit from this, Mark.

55:35 - cscott
what all is included in the subscription?

55:49 - Maureen@bcdtech
@McTeach- have been overwhelmed with work, family stuff- haven't been online much since March- so ISTE will be a real treat for me this year.

56:04 - zmidler
One thing that would be good Mark is to get someone organization like the BIG6 folks or the AIIP to give this product their seal of approval.

56:08 - Sheri Edwards
Where do we sign up?

56:13 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)

56:34 - kg
Am not sure that tying into Big6 would be what Dulcinea wants to do here.

56:38 - Roxanne Clement
How do we get on the early subscriber list now Mark?

57:05 - Cecilia Pincomb
What are the next steps to become an early adopter or previewer?

57:10 - Maureen@bcdtech
So will it be available, viewable on Ipad?

57:18 - Peggy George
don't forget about all of the widgets you can use to access the daily content http://www.sweetsearch.com/widget

57:22 - Kim Caise
eventually yes @maureen

57:30 - carolynstanley
That is why having it available for smartphones and iPads and other hand-held devices is so important.

57:37 - Info Meister
edutainmemt - sooooo 1980's

57:42 - Larry A
Librarians and Teachers need to be trained on this type of search and source verification or quality if students will benefit

57:43 - McTeach (Karen)
Maureen...I totally understand! Can't remember the last time I blogged!! It's been crazy!

57:48 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)

58:07 - Peggy George
wonderful!! we'll include his email in our links for today on the blog post

58:11 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)

58:21 - Peggy George
Mark works 24/7

58:23 - Peggy George

58:33 - Deepak R
@Mark : u said that the sweet search runs on top of googel.... so how u justify that sweet search is more useful than google !

58:39 - Roxanne Clement
do you hear the phone ringing now???? tee hee

59:00 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Virtual applause for Mark Moran.

59:09 - zmidler
Excellent--thank you so much Mark!

59:10 - Peggy George
try doing a Diigo search and then run yolink on top of it! the yolink toolbar is amazing

59:17 - Govinda Panthy 2
Can you plz. give me the link suitable for the young students Moran?

59:19 - Jennifer
A very useful hour, thank you very much; I cannot wait to start using it.

59:20 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Deepak, SweetSearch only searches 35,000 sites; Google searches 6 trillion; it is a more selective approach

59:28 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
SweetSearch4Me is the search engine for younger students

59:34 - Peggy George
we'll be at Edubloggercon on June 25 :-)

59:34 - Govinda Panthy 2
thank you Moran

59:39 - carolynstanley
Yeah - Megan works in my district in CT, and she's amazing; please tune in.

59:40 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
I will answer ALL questions in this chat today

59:47 - Peggy George
thank you all for joining us today!!!!

1:00:04 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Yeah for EduBloggerCon. See you there Peggy and Kim.

1:00:08 - Peggy George

1:00:10 - Deepak R
@Mark: Oh! Thank u Mark

1:00:10 - Janice Robertson
Thank YOU very much!

1:00:23 - @edmcgovern
Thx everyone for all the info

1:00:26 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
And to be clear, don't use SweetSearch INSTEAD of Google; use it IN ADDITION to Google and several other tools

1:00:33 - Peggy George
the survey link is also in the Livebinder tab if you want to watch a recording and request a PD certificate

1:00:51 - McTeach (Karen)
Thanks for a great show, Mark!! Awesome stuff!

1:00:52 - Peggy George
just fill in the survey any time you watch a recording and I'll send you the certificate

1:00:55 - blairteach 1
Thank you, Mark, for sharing all this information with us.

1:00:55 - McTeach (Karen)
Peggy rocks!!!!!!

1:00:57 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Thank you all!

1:00:58 - carolynstanley
@Mark - can you explain what will remain free in comparison to what the subscription service includes?

1:01:00 - Roxanne Clement
livebinder link again?

1:01:01 - Deepak R
@Mark : so how u choose that 35,000 sites.... had a criteria??

1:01:17 - Kim Caise

1:01:25 - Kim Caise

1:01:26 - Peggy George
that is a huge undertaking for itunesu and we have to wait until they give us access again to upload our content.

1:01:27 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Yes; this will be available on iPad and iPhone by late August

1:01:31 - carolynstanley
@Mark - I appreciate your take on bogus sites.

1:01:34 - Info Meister
Is that surprising - another apple -de-grade update (opps - they didn't want anyone to know that.

1:01:36 - Kim Caise

1:02:12 - Peggy George
yes they are completely reorganizing the way the display itunesu and we won't have multiple tabs any longer

1:02:16 - Roxanne Clement
YAY Classroom 2.0 my first stop each Saturday!

1:02:30 - Peggy George
thanks a lot Roxanne!!!

1:02:46 - carolynstanley
Me: @Mark - can you explain what will remain free in comparison to what the subscription service includes?

1:02:52 - Peggy George
so how u choose that 35,000 sites.... had a criteria??

1:02:57 - Roxanne Clement
You ladies are awesome....wouldn't be anywhere else

1:02:59 - Govinda Panthy 2
Great Question raiser Blairteach, can you give me ur email address plz

1:03:00 - Maureen@bcdtech
@peggy- links aren't clickable anymore? Or is it just me?

1:03:01 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Lost audio.

1:03:14 - Peggy George
question from Deepak R :-)

1:03:27 - Peggy George
links are clickable in the chat not on the whiteboard

1:03:43 - @edmcgovern
And how long does a unit take?

1:03:46 - Govinda Panthy 2
Great Roxanne.

1:03:51 - Deepak R
@Peggy: yep but i havent got the ans yet :)

1:03:54 - Peggy George
all of the links in the Livebinders are clickable

1:04:05 - zmidler
Can you ballpark the costs right now?

1:04:14 - @reba jghfoundation08
Is Sweet Search for 6th - 12th and Sweet Search 4 Me for K-5th ?

1:04:14 - Kim Caise
$1 per student per year

1:04:21 - Govinda Panthy 2
hello no sound i can't hear

1:04:21 - Kim Caise
yes @reba

1:04:28 - Peggy George
@Maureen--which links are not clickable??

1:04:41 - Peggy George
yes Kim

1:04:45 - Govinda Panthy 2
plz. type here

1:05:01 - @reba jghfoundation08
@Govinda Go to Tools>Audio and test your audio

1:05:07 - Peggy George
Deepak R: @Mark : so how u choose that 35,000 sites.... had a criteria??

1:05:09 - Info Meister
I have a feeling this will be a "standard" for certain school districts - Easy seaches and economizing

1:05:22 - Info Meister
of positions

1:05:23 - Roxanne Clement
so schools can identify grade levels to subscribe...say 3-5?

1:05:40 - Maureen@bcdtech
@Peggy- I could always click thru the links on the chat, but today I can't... maybe it's just me/chrome. I'll use them in the livebinder

1:05:51 - Janice Robertson
Is it a heavy emphasis on American content or would it be beneficial to Canadian students as well?

1:06:28 - Peggy George
ok-yes the links are clickable for me in the chat so I'm sure they will be for you in the recording. We'll post the chat log in the blog post too so you'll have all of the links

1:06:47 - Peggy George
I think we have all of the links in the Livebinder except for the subscription information which hasn't been released yet

1:07:07 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Now there's an idea for app developers - create video games based on research knowledge and copabilities.

1:07:20 - Peggy George
love it Paula!!

1:07:26 - zmidler
Will you be collecting use cases/case studies via a blog or survey mechanism? For example, a 2nd grade class used tutorial 1-3 for a Civil War unit of study w/these outcomes.

1:07:41 - Info Meister
Unfortunately - that is valid for most in the field - however - with new evaluations for instrtuvction (teachers) - that will (the verbal comments) probably not assist in the evalyuation process. Remember that the ones who crewte the eveluations are pol's and they are not necessarily n the classroom - they look at the numbers and unfortunately forget the "true" learning component.

1:07:52 - Patti R
in the subscription service do students have individual log ons or does the teacher create a class, sorry if this was asked already I missed it

1:07:55 - Deepak R
@Mark:so how u choose that 35,000 sites.... had a criteria??

1:07:55 - Peggy George
have any of you used the "on this day" widget with your students?

1:07:59 - Larry A
Do you include tutorials for doing critical thinking, creative thinking and analytical thinking?

1:08:29 - Peggy George
how would you like to see parents involved with these resources?

1:08:52 - Peggy George
they need to learn the same things the students do

1:09:01 - Roxanne Clement
Parents need to understand how to support their students, and learn along with them

1:10:08 - Peggy George
I'm so sorry that TEDX Philly is the same day as Edubloggercon!!!

1:10:27 - Peggy George

1:10:35 - Peggy George
flash cards!!!

1:10:48 - Peggy George
bixby letter on findingdulcinea blog

1:10:49 - Maureen@bcdtech
@Peggy I'm planning on the morning at edubloggercon, then TEDx starting at 1pm

1:11:02 - Info Meister
REinforce learning - great concept - but doen't necessarily "fit" the current model - with RTTT and NCLB - The test and numbers are key - and individual tjhinking (critically or othrewise) will become less relevant and probably be the exception rather than the rule. How do you feel about the systems posing learning in the guise of test prep?

1:11:04 - Patti R
I read that Bixby post, excellent

1:11:15 - Larry A
You should make this type of training part of teacher preparation for certification - and for librarians too

1:11:48 - Info Meister
How do you feel about systems posing individual learning through the guise of test prep?

1:12:15 - Peggy George

1:13:27 - Info Meister
great list - include more thah LMS

1:13:27 - Peggy George
@Maureen--I've noticed that many people are saying they are leaving Edubloggercon at noon to go to TEDX

1:13:53 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Me too, Maureen. Sad to miss afternoon at EBC though I'm excited to attend TEDx.

1:13:55 - Peggy George
that's a wonderful way to do it Mark!! very impressive!

1:13:58 - Sheri Edwards
I'm so tired of test prep. I hope my students are learners for life -- not just prepping for what might be on a test.

1:14:13 - zmidler
Association of Independent Information Professional (AIIP) list serve is another LM NET like resource.

1:14:38 - McTeach (Karen)
Peggy...does that mean it'll just be the two of us at EBC in the afternoon???

1:14:42 - Maureen@bcdtech
@peggy... it's just such a tremendous opportunity- haven't gone to a TED or TEDx before. Hard to fit it all into a few days

1:15:11 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Maureen I attended TEDx in Denver last year. It was great.

1:15:18 - Peggy George
I just heard a teacher on one of my listservs today who said at their school they are now only teaching Reading and Math!!!! no writing, science, social studies just because of need to meet AYP!! can only teach the other content while teaching reading/math!!

1:15:40 - Larry A
@Info - not all librarians are out of the loop but teachers, instructors and librarians should be able to work together in research approaches - librarians should be an important hub of any educational institution

1:15:42 - McTeach (Karen)
Peggy...what? How is that even legal???

1:15:51 - Peggy George
You may be right McTeach!!! But that would be really valuable for me!!!

1:16:12 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
That is such a sad statement on where our education is headed because of testing accountability.

1:16:27 - McTeach (Karen)
Peggy...ha! You're silly!

1:16:28 - Peggy George
my question too McTeach--legal?? but if it isn't tested they don't feel required to teach it. Even with state/federal standards

1:17:04 - Roxanne Clement
ugly Peggy

1:17:05 - Sheri Edwards
The problem isn't the test -- it's how the test is used.

1:17:18 - Peggy George
absolutely Mark!!!!!

1:17:18 - Maureen@bcdtech
@plnaugle- we can share a cab :-) I have no idea where it is in relation to conference center. Next week I will actually try to plan- still doing grades and comments.

1:17:18 - Roxanne Clement
that is ugly and sick for education future

1:17:24 - Larry A
Maybe we don't need textbooks any more if we know how to find the information on the net

1:17:42 - carolynstanley
@Peggy - sadly that is the case in many schools -in our school it's not so much teaching to the test, but we do have a great emphasis on covering extensive curriculum. I fear that we wouldn't have time to fit all of Mark's units into the student's day.

1:17:57 - Peggy George
that will really make the difference--teaching teachers how easy it is to do this right!

1:18:01 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Spelling and cursvise handwriting have disappeared from our curriculum, along with the arts. Wonder what will be elliminated yet?

1:18:04 - Roxanne Clement
Aren't the new national standards also going to have new testing across the curriculum?

1:18:06 - Larry A
Explain the limits of sites of answers.com or yahoo answers - tell students

1:18:12 - Deepak R
@Larry: but still there are many students in the world who dont know event what is internet !

1:18:23 - carolynstanley
If we make this a district initiative, then it might have a chance of being better integrated.

1:18:24 - Peggy George
it's probably just a matter of time Roxanne!!

1:18:31 - Sheri Edwards
My background is TAG -- talented and gifted -- the strategies of which inspires all students; hard to implement with our testing emphasis.

1:18:50 - carolynstanley
I do not like Answers.com -haven't found much useful there

1:19:15 - Larry A
@Deepak - we use textbooks for those who don't have the access but moving to an internet structure is how we should be going

1:19:25 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Thank you, Mark. Gotta get going. See you at ISTE.

1:19:30 - @reba jghfoundation08
is Sweet Search for 6th-12th and Sweet Search 4 Me for K-5

1:19:30 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)

1:19:30 - Peggy George
great Mark!! we can add the xtra normal video to the livebinder too

1:19:37 - Deepak R
@Mark: so how u choose that 35,000 sites.... had a criteria??

1:19:40 - Maureen@bcdtech
Thank you Kim, Peggy and Mark! Looking forward to hearing more at ISTE. Back to grading and writing comments.

1:19:45 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Yes, SweetSearch for me is K-6

1:19:46 - Cecilia Pincomb
Just love xtranormal...kids love it too!

1:19:52 - Larry A
We need to be thinking in terms of where we should be moving and not in terms of why we can't all move there yet!

1:19:56 - Peggy George
cool video!! thanks!

1:20:09 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Yes, larry!

1:20:11 - Peggy George
this has been fantastic Mark!!!!

1:20:21 - carolynstanley
@Larry - you are right! I should not be a naysayer.

1:20:21 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Thank you Peggy!

1:20:24 - @reba jghfoundation08
yes is sweet Search for 6th -12 and is sweet Search 4 Me for K-5

1:20:25 - Info Meister
Deeepak asked - How do you choose 35k sites - what cri=teria

1:20:28 - @plnaugle(Paula Naugle)
Googbye to my CR 2.0 Live buddies. See you soon.

1:20:37 - Sheri Edwards
Bye paula

1:20:37 - Peggy George
it is so reassuring to know that there are educators like Mark who are creating these kinds of quality tools!!!!

1:20:47 - Sheri Edwards
Thanks all

1:20:51 - carolynstanley
@Mark - you will still support the free SweetSearch, I assume?

1:20:53 - Larry A
This is great and will make significant impact in education for all levels

1:21:21 - Marjorie Wagner 1
Thanks, Mark!

1:21:26 - Peggy George
bye everyone! thank you so much for joining us today! See you next week for Megan Wilson who will teach us about "iAuthor an iBook" :-) She's incredible!

1:21:33 - carolynstanley
I think using you subscription for professional development will be really worthwhile

1:21:33 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Thank you everyone!

1:21:41 - McTeach (Karen)
Yes, thank you so much, Mark!!! For all you do!!

1:21:41 - Larry A
Mark - I'll be encouraging students to use these tools more in the study system platform I have at http://www.yoursuccessinschool.com/

1:21:42 - Mark Moran (@findingDulcinea)
Write any time - mark.moran@dulcineamedia.com

1:21:53 - Peggy George
thanks for that link Larry! I'll add it to the livebinder